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City Aims to Implement Dress Code
Detroit Free Press
Gina Damron
February 8, 2008
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* Freedom of Expression
Feb. 8--Brendan Asante wears his pants low and a little saggy.
But the 15-year-old may soon have to hike up his pants if some Auburn Hills officials get their way.
City Council members -- tired of seeing young men in saggy pants with exposed underwear and girls in low cut tops -- are looking into whether the city can implement a sort of citywide dress code to keep such clothing out of public places.
Councilman Henry Knight said a dress code could potentially be enforced under the city's indecency ordinance. The issue, discussed at Monday's City Council meeting, is not yet slated for a council vote.
City Manager Peter Auger said the city attorney and Police Department are researching the legality of such an ordinance.
This worries Brendan.
"The city doesn't have the authority to say what I can wear," said the Avondale High sophomore, who added that his pants drop below his underwear, but that his drawers are usually hidden by his shirt.
Towns such as Riviera Beach, Fla.; Pine Lawn, Mo.; Atlanta and several Louisiana parishes have talked about, implemented or are in the process of implementing similar ordinances targeting saggy pants. Penalities range from community service to fines.
In Atlanta, the American Civil Liberties Union has said it would challenge legislation if approved, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
Mark Fancher, a staff attorney for the racial justice project of the ACLU of Michigan, believes such a measure could lead to racial profiling.
"It gives a license to police to ... arrest kids because of the way they're dressed and that's just wrong," Fancher said.
But Knight insists that the council isn't trying to violate anyone's rights.
"It's a hard issue to legislate morality, we know that," Knight said. "But, we're saying, as the city policy makers, we at least need to say, 'Is there something we can do in a situation we believe is a negative impact upon the businesses in our community?' "
Auger said the issue may not be on the agenda for the next council meeting, set for Feb. 18, but will be revisited soon.
Contact GINA DAMRON at 248-351-3293 or gdamron@freepress.com.
Answer the following:
Do you feel an ordinance should be passed or is this a breach of freedom of expression? Make sure to give your reasoning.
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48 comments:
OI VEY!!!!
well, I think having a dress code in schools is perfectly fine, but an overall city-wide dress code seems ridiculous.
There's indecent exposure. I believe that is good enough. As long as nude people aren;t roaming the streets I think I will be ok.
If boys want to look like idiots and sag their pants than fine let them look like idiots.
You really don't even want me to get started on the little girls roaming around showing off those A cups. Its just embarrassing to be a female sometimes.
If you are of an appropriate age you should be allowed to wear whatever you want. I really dont want to see minors looking like trash.
this is just my opinion.
Jessica,
Why to get things started!!!
I can't wait to read more...
I DISAGREE TO ANY TYPE OF DRESS CODE. I BELIEVE SCHOOLS ARE TRYING TO DESENSITIZE US AND CONFORM US TO ACCEPTABLE STANDARDS AS OFTEN AS THEY CAN. SURE THEY APPROVE OF ACTIVITIES SUCH AS ART AND THEATRE BECAUSE IT IS A VERY LARGE PART OF WHAT MAKES US HUMAN, BUT AS SOON AS SOMEONE PAINTS A BEAUTIFUL PAINTING WHICH JUST HAPPENS TO HAVE A WOMAN WITH AN EXPOSED BREAST THEY GO NUTS. THE SCHOOLS ARE ALL HYPOCRITICAL, TELLING US ALL WE HAVE ALL THESE FREEDOMS AND THEN LIMIT THEM FOR ONLY THE SCHOOLS BECAUSE OF AGEISM, AND BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IF THEY FORCE US TO STOP THEN WE WILL STOP AFTER WE GRADUATE, WHICH NEVER WORKS, LIKE THE PROHIBITION NEVER STOPPED PEOPLE FROM DRINKING ALCOHOL.
I beleive that the dress code that the city council is trying to impose is only appropriate for a school setting. Trying to put a whole city in under this law or rule that they prefer doesn't seem practical or a realistic idea. Although they may think that some people's clothes are "inappropriate," they can't force people of the city to dress a certain way. When a teenager reaches the age that they can wear what they want, it isn't really any body's job to try and stop them. There are too many legal issues dealing with rights of humans that the city council could run into by placing this law into effect. If kids choose to wear their clothes the way Auburn Hills sees as inappropriate, then so be it. They are only shaming themselves and it is not any person's responsibility to try and stop them from that, even if they decide that the people in their city shouldn't be represented like that.
well i also strongly disagree with having a dress code because first of all i had to wear a uniform al through elementary and middle school back in Texas and it wasn't really the best thing. especially now that alot of places are trying to make it a city thing... it just takes away ur freedom... they might as well just hand us all some orange jump suits and tell us that we have to be inside before the street lights come on...
Having dress codesat school is ok but for a whole city is kind of crazy. Dress codes are for school. Although what some people wear is inappropriate, they can't make everyone dress appropriately. That seems way to impossible. I personally think that it is pretty nasty seeing women expose themselves as much as they have and many guys look rediculous wearing their pants as low as they do but if that's the way they dress, you can't really stop them. They are just embarassing themselves.
THEY ALREADY HAVE A LAW THAT PREVENTS INAPPROPRIATE CLOTHING AND THAT LAW IS CALLED INDECENT EXPOSURE. THEY ALSO HAVE A LAW THAT STATES THAT THE GOVERNMENT CANNOT LIMIT WHAT WE WEAR OR DO AS LONG AS IT'S LEGAL AND THAT LAW IS THE 1ST AMMENDMENT. IS THE GOVERNMENT TRYING TO TELL US THAT THE 1ST AMMENDMENT DOESN'T APPLY TO US STUDENTS? ARE WE NOT AMERICAN? ARE WE NOT HUMAN? EVERY HUMAN SHOULD AT LEAST BE ALLOWED THE BASIC RIGHT TO MAKE CONCIOUS DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES. EVERYONE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO LIVE AND LEARN FROM THIER MISTAKES AND THE SAME SHOULD BE SAID ABOUT CLOTHING CHOICE. IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE OR NOT, IT IS SELFISH TO APPLY RULES TO SCHOOL SYSTEMS SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO SEE PEOPLE DRESSED A CERTAIN WAY. I MEAN, 5 YEARS FROM NOW, ARE YOU REALLY GONNA REMEMBER A GUY'S UNDERWEAR YOU SAW?
I think that a city wide dress code is just crazy. I can see having a dress code enforced in some schools but city wide come on! When kids are out of school they should be able to wear what they please and that goes for anyone. As long as people dress the way they want in their own free time then i really don't see a problem with it. I think a city wide dress code would definitely be a breach of freedom because that is one of the main ways to be yourself and stand out from everyone else.
I agree with jenny. I don't think it would be possible or at least it would be unbelievably hard to get everyone in an entire city to follow a dress code. The way they dress is their own personal choice and they should be allowed to make that decision. Although we may not like seeing people expose themselves it is their choice and they are just embarrassing themselves so why should we stop them from dressing a certain way when it is their freedom and they deserve to dress how they please?
I agree with Colin I believe that a dress code is only appropriate for schools and not for a whole city. They may think that the way some people dress is inappropriate, but i feel it is not their decision. It is the persons right to wear what they please without anyone telling them that it is wrong. If a whole entire city has a dress code then that takes away from their personality and freedom, everyone should be able to wear what they please.
i feel there is a point where bagging clothes is inappropriate and is wrong but trying to get laws to try and stop it is impossible especially the huge city we live in. Now there is also a point where it is ok like an inch or two is not so bad but why waist all that money trying to get something passed that they cant do a lot about is stupid. i also feel that the city and others r trying to make us all the same and not letting us have our own personality,and style of clothing.
I understand what Gary is trying to explain in his argument for no dress code at all anywhere. Although this seems that it is what we as teenagers want, it simply isn't and applicable or appropriate idea to pertain to schools. I also think that gary made a great point on the art details and the way society portrays it and how the prohibition never stopped people from drinking, but with the age variation and different exposure, there has to be some limit somewhere to dress codes
I agree with Jessica in her opinion that if people want to represent themselves with the way they wear their clothes to high or low then let them be. They are only hurting themselves in what other people may portray their attitude, personality, etc is. I also believe that there are certain times where an age becomes appropriate to be able to where whatever you want, but people also need to think of what they do before they do it.
I think that a city-wide dress code is absolutely ridiculous! People should be allowed to wear what they want. I think that if people want to look trashy, then let them. They are the ones that it reflects on and it's their body. If those "little girls," as Jessica refers to, want to show off their bodies for perverted 50 year old men to look at then let it be, maybe one day they'll finally get creeped out. Also, guys out there who sag the pants, what are you in jail?! Do you really want to look like the prisoners who do that as an invitation?! The people who do dress "trashy" or sag their pants honestly have a lot of growing up to do and i think that if there was a city-wide dress code they would just rebel.
I absolutely agree with Jessica! If boys want to look like idiots and sag their pants, then let them. It reflects on them and only makes them look bad. Also, i love your comment about "little girls," it's so true!
i agree with colin.
If people want to waer something thats shows their style, let them, it's nobody else's business.
I don't see them problem with saggy pants if the shirt or top is covering up the underwear. I don't really care if the underwear shows, i've gotten used to it. So i think that maybe these politicians are just not used to it because they have probably been raised in a rich, suburban setting where style hasnt really changed very much with the time.
Someone earlier said that there is already a law prohibiting indecent clothing. Great. let's move on to bigger issues.
There are also amendments protecting our rights to wear what we wanrt without being OVERLY indecent.
INDECENT is a relative term. What may be indecent in a business building may be be apporpriate in "the hood", or anywhere else where a large number of people follow a tend.
The same goes with other clothing. Would it be wierd to wear a tuxedo at a pool party? Yeah, everyone would be irritated that you'd come and set a wrong vibe for the party...
So i can see where both side would come from but just because you're a politician doesn't mean you're correct and you have the right make laws based only on your opinion. If you work for the government it would be good idea to fight for what people want
Having a law stating what you can and cannot wear is bogus. We should be allowed to wear what we wish, and a law stopping our freedom of speech is unconsitutional. I can see thatwe have a dress code at school, but everywhere else is stupid. It would be a feel good law, how could they inforce it? Also cities should spend their time on things like murders and gangs.
WOWZER!!! Well Gary, I agree to an extent that schools are trying to desenstize us. In some ways the kids these days aren't as ready for the harder things in life...I know that they have changed alot to "protect" kids...all it is doing is hiding the truth and reality from them. People try to sugar coat life and thats wrong. Some of these kids are in for a real shock when they get out on their own.
I belive that dress codes in schools are appropriate. Some of the things like no spikes or chains is kind of dumb. Also no hats is dumb as well. But the ones saying basically "we dont want to see your underwear" are ok...
It seems alot of the time that a couple of idiot kids ruin it for the rest of us. I believe we even have a "no sagging" rule. Boys are going to try and "look cool" and sag, I personally DO NOT find it attractive AT ALL and haven't met a girl who does. I dont think teachers or administrators should have the right to tell someone to pull their pants up...just odd to me.
I hate going to the mall.
You get to see all the middle school girls looking like they are going to a frat party. It disgusts me. The only thing i can think of is "and their parents let them out of the house in that!!!!??!?!?"
Are today's parents clueless!? Do they think their 12 year old daughter looks "cute" in her low cut halter top and mini skirt (not to mention the major push up bra). I mean I cant believe it. I still don't have the nerve to walk out of my house like that! My mother would yank me in the house and make me wear sweats!
Also, like Ashley said, all these girls are doing is making it easier for the 50 year old creeper down the street to think bad thoughts.
Gah, I just....society....AHHH!!!
Im seriously ashamed.
This ordinance should not be even considered passing as a law through the city council. I fully understand that todays young generation has different view points and bevahior patterns when it comes to the subject of the dress code and their personal wardrobe. Its DISAPPOINTING to see when the young kids expose themselves in such matters and dress against their own school's dresscode. More importantly, parents should be the one to guide their young ones on what is & isn't appropiate to wear.
As on the stand point of controlling the city as a whole and managing what they wear, it may not be possible. This is certainly a freedom of choice for the people and they should have the right to dress however they want to. Its like telling people not to pick their nose out in public and embarrassing themselves by dressing differently, making all of it against the law. You can't be everyones Mommy^_^
I do not agree with a city wide dress code! It is a breach of freedom. It stops people from expressing themselves. People walking around naked or flashing is one thing but i dont think some kid sagging or a girl in a little shirt should be enough to to a city wide dress code. I think its getting blown way out of porportion. Also its hard for me to see cops stopping a bunch of people just because there sagging! Attention Breaking news: cops are in a high speed chase of a potential sagger! :/
I agree with jessica... If people want to degrade themselves by dressing in a ridiculous way then let them. People should be able to wear what they want even if they look stupid. This type of dressing might be offensive to some people but its not to others. Why should there be a law deciding what offensive and whats not.. who's setting that standard?
I think that a city wide dress code is crazy. The government can't tell people what the can and can't wear unless it is indecent exposure or some thing like. Big deal guys like to have a breeze on there bum. Its just a style it will fade.
This is Brittiny Burnetts comment
This is in responce to gnalbandian. Schools arent trying to conform us, as teenagers, and (i say this as a whole) most of the time its teenagers who are trying to break the contemperary thought. One should go to school to learn, not try to be scandalous. If you girls need to dress a certain way in order that you feel you get attention, youre lousy. And whoever makes you feel that way is lousy too. And if you dont go to school to learn. Get out!
I dont wear different stuff outside of school than at school. I dont see the big problem with having a city wide dress code. Those of you who say freedom of expression, come on! if the way you express yourself is through the trashy clothes or saggy pants you wear youre missing out. If youre defined by things you wear. Then who are you truly? If you have to wear certain clothes in order to feel a certain way, are you covering up the nakedness and emptiness inside? Its not like with the dress code law that it limits the creativity nor the freedom of expression. People have been expressing themselves for hundreds of years without looking like bimbos!
BRETT, HERE ME OUT. AMERICANS ARE RAISED WITH THE IDEA THAT MANDATORY EDUCATION WAS CREATED WITH KIDS BEST INTERESTS AT HEART, RIGHT? BUT THE REALITY IS THAT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IS NOW AN OUT OF CONTROL BUREAUCRACY WITH TOO MUCH UNCHALANGED POWER. BY CREATING THE SCHOOL SYSTEM AS ITS OWN INDEPENDENT BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, SUPPORTED BY THE POWERFUL UNIONS OF TEACHERS, IT HAS BECOME VIRTUALLY UNTOUCHABLE. IT NOW HAS ITS OWN AGENDA, COMPLETELTY SEPERATE FROM THE INTERESTS OF MILLIONS OF KIDS WHO THEY HAV UNDER THEIR CONTROL, THRU LAWS OF GUARDIANSHIP THAT ENABLE THEM TO DISREGARD THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF KIDS FOR THE SLIGHTEST REASONS. BECAUSE OF THIS THE EDUCATION OF KIDS HAV BECOME SECONDARY, AND THE STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE LACK MANY BASIC SKILLS. OR AT LEAST THATS MY OPINION.
Gary, I thought I was into conspiracy theories, but yours in a whopper, double whopper. Mandatory education is a blessing, Go back to a few weeks ago in class, children worked in mills, refineries, mines, and farms without the benefit of education. This bred a cycle of poverty and a large separation of wealthy and poor. And as far as the educational bureaucracy being supported by strong powerful unions, I must interject that these strong powerful teachers unions are what keeps the governmental bureaucracy in check. It is nice to know you are under my control!!! I would like a chai latte (double ice). We have gotten away from the subject at hand, but I do agree that the administration in power has indeed gotten away from the true importance of education the CHILD! I have HOPE that this will not be the case in the coming years.
Clothing issues, I have to agree with Brett Mallette, saggy pants are comforming not freedom of expression because your freedom of expression should come from inside not out.
Personally, I think that this "new law" sounds ridiculous and pretty much I'm saying good luck enforcing it. You can not make a law that changes someone’s morals, it will not work. I believe there needs to be some sort of dress code in schools and jobs. When you are not in either I think you should have the right to wear what you please. It is up to the person to decide if what their wearing is appropriate or not, the gov't should not be in charge of that. I don’t think that this law will work in any way, there will be too many contradictions for this law to be successful in anyway.
I agree with Jessica, it disgusts me too when I see all these little girls dressed like little hoochies. And also my parents would KILL me if I walked out of the house like that. I think that our society needs to grow up and be a tad bit more mature. These kids’ parents either don’t know what their kid is doing, which is not right good or they simply don’t care, which is also not good. I feel that kids these days a lacking more and more respect for themselves and some how they need to learn to cover up once in a while. There is no way exactly to do so except the people who these kids look up to need to be more careful of what they are portraying to these kids. I do believe though that we need a way to self express ourselves, and dressing in our sense of style is a way of showing it.
I somewhat disagree with you Mrs. Burr, because yes that is true that your pants shouldn’t reflect who you are but the person inside should. What if you’re someone who isn’t that good at expressing themselves, with words and actions? I myself am quiet and don’t say much that may express myself, but I always dress the way I feel. To some people what shows on the outside is what they see on the inside. At times that is kind of sad when you see some kids and the way they portray their appearance but it is the simplest way to get your message across.
i would have to agree with most of you guys/girls if the city wants to take away peoples right to express them self by there cloths then its just like have uniforms in schools. If people run around naked then we have a problem but what if some body gets hot and takes off their shit that is more exposure then saggin your pants.
the people that sag and the girls that wear shirts with a little more that a little cleavage showing are the people that are taking advantage of the right to express there freedom to wear what ever they want (to reasonable extent that is)
I agree with Dillian about how a city wide dress code could be enforced. Theres so many people it seems, to me, that finding everyone who doesnt dress right would be impossible. Also where would it end? If they pass this whats going to stop them from passing laws saying what kind of symbols we can where. Or if were aloud to wear religious signs on are clothes
I dont think a city-wide ordinance should be passed, its a freedom of expression. You may not like the way that some people dress but just learn to deal with it. By making a dress code, that takes away peoples individuality.
I also agree with Jessica, if the people want to look like idiots, just let them. As long as people arent running the streets nude there's really not that big of a problem in my eyes..
I agree with Mrs. Burr, your freedom of expression should come from inside, not outside, but I think it's just taking it a step too far to have a city-wide dress code.
ok self expression does not come from how much cleavage you have or how low your pants can be. It comes from your style, the way you act. Girls shouldnt be walkin around lookin like daisy duke and the guys should know where sagging pants come from. It comes from JAIL...and not in a good way...to be nice terms...it means your owned. So i laugh at them on that part. I like to wear cute clothes but i dont disgrace the female race
ok self expression does not come from how much cleavage you have or how low your pants can be. It comes from your style, the way you act. Girls shouldnt be walkin around lookin like daisy duke and the guys should know where sagging pants come from. It comes from JAIL...and not in a good way...to be nice terms...it means your owned. So i laugh at them on that part. I like to wear cute clothes but i dont disgrace the female race
Having a dress code in schools is normal, but having a dress code out in society will never work. People wont take dressing appropriatly seriously, or their view of what is appropriate very different from other people. Yeah when im walking down the street i dont want to see someones underwear or a womans cleavage.
We sort of do have a dress code in society, your not allowed to walk the city naked. If someone wants to walk around with their pants below their butt then they can, i just do not want to see anything more.
I agree with Jessica about how younger girls dress. I was in the mall the other day with my mom and sister and a group of girls 12 or 13 years old walk passed us and my mother turned to my sister and I and said "thank you for being the type of girls a mom can respect, not the girls a mom looks down on and thinks to herself what did she do wrong." Some girls learn from their mothers how to dress, which is disturbing because when i think how a mother should dress halter tops and mini skirts are not something i picture.
INDIVIDUALITY SHOULD COME FROM THE INSIDE, NOT OUT, RIGHT? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THAT YOU CAN ONLY BE INDIVIDUL IN YOUR MIND BUT ONCE UR IN THE REAL WORLD U HAV TO CONFORM TO NORMAL STANDARDS? I BELIEVE IT IS NO ONES BUSINESS BUT UR OWN IF U LIKE THE FREEDOM OF LOOSE PANTS, AND YES THIS WAS STARTED IN JAIL BY GAY GUYS WHO WANED TO SHOW OFF THEIR GAYNESS, BUT IT IS NOT USED FOR THE SAME REASON AS MUCH THESE DAYS OUTSIDE OF JAIL. I BELIEVE FREEDOM SHOULD NOT BE CONFINED TO JUST YOUR INSIDES BUT SHOULD BE SHOWN IN YOUR CHARACTER, YOUR WAY OF SPEECH, AS WELL AS YOUR CLOTHING STYLES.
MRS BURR, MANDATORY SCHOOL IS VERY MUCH A BLESSING IF USED IN THE RIGHT WAY. BUT, EVENTUALLY, LIKE ALL THINGS THAT ARE MANDATORY, IT GOES OUT OF CONTROL WITH POWER. SCHOOLS NOW HAV THE POWER TO TAX, RULE UNJUSTLY, AND EVEN ROB YOU OF YOUR BASIC RIGHTS AS CITIZENS. LOOK AT DENMARK, WHICH HAS JUST OFFICIALLY REPLACED DISNEYLAND AS THE HAPPIEST PLACE ON EARTH. THEY HAV COMPLETELY FREE SCHOOL AND THEY EVEN GET PAID TO DO GOOD IN SCHOOL. THEY ALSO GET TO ENJOY FREE HEALTH CARE, FREE PARENTAL FINANCIAL CARE, AND FREE ELDERLY CARE. IF OUR BUREAUCRACIES BALANCE OUR OTHER BUREAUCRACIES SO PERFECTLY THEN Y ARENT WE THE HAPPIEST PLACE ON EARTH ANYMORE? IN FACT, THE U.S. IS THE LEADER IN MOST CRIME AND TEEN PREGNANCIES. ALL BECAUSE POWERFUL PEOPLE WANT TO BE AMERICAS MOMMYS AND THINK THEY KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR US WHEN IT IS NOT THEIR PLACE TO SAY.
A city wide dress code totally violates personal identity!! While I agree offensive clothing such as hooker attire and nudity should be implemented, telling people how to dress is childish and completely strips society of its diversity. Boo on a city dress code!
I think that Freedom of religion is the most important freedom in the first amendment, because with out freedom of religion you would be forced to believe what the government wanted you to, there would be no diversity. If I had to give up an amendment I would give up freedom of press, because it seems like the least important freedom, you would still get to find out what happens, just not everything. I think you should have the freedom to education. No saying some people don’t get an education but scholarships should not be taken away.
I think a dress code in school is fine, but and overall city dress code is not. Everyone should be able to express themselves. I really believe they way you dress describe your mood, and or your personality. I also believe that if we were forced to have a city-wide dress code then they "government" or who ever is enforcing the laws is trying to control they way we think or express ourselves. I mean it’s fine if our parents put standards on what kind of clothes we dress in but that’s it.
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